#345 – Transforming Listings into Sales: A Deep Dive into Effective Amazon Marketing with Mark Casey
In episode 345 of the AM/PM Podcast, Kevin and Mark discuss:
03:18 – Why He’s Called Mark “The Fixer” Casey
03:54 – Mark’s Background
06:50 – Helping Family And Friends Who Are In Need
07:27 – Why Mark Opened His Own Agency
09:07– The Science Behind A Main Image That Stands Out
12:50 – Listing Image Strategies
17:26 – A+ Content Tips & Strategies
25:19 – Creative Video Storyboard & UGCs
28:03 – How Is AI Going To Affect His Business
32:09– AI That Creates Listing Images
36:01 – Using AI To Report Negative Reviews To Amazon
37:44 – Talking About Amazon’s Test Inside Listings And Product Pages
38:24 – Kevin’s Idea For Product Review Visibility
40:20 – Biggest Listing Issues Amazon Sellers Make
43:10 – Putting Your Brand Name In Your Title Debate
46:08 – Do Not Estimate The Power Of Videos
46:56 – The Q&A Section Is Underutilized
49:57 – How To Reach Out To Mark Casey
52:00 – This Week’s Golden Nugget Tip
Transcript
Kevin King:
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to episode 345 of the AM/PM Podcast. My guest this week is Mark Casey. Mark is laser focused on Amazon, on helping Amazon sellers create better listings, get better conversions, and that’s what we’re gonna be talking about this week. Lots of actionable, tactical things that you can do to really boost your conversion rate, to really help your listings and to sell more on Amazon. I think you’re gonna really like this episode. Don’t forget next week the Billion Dollar Seller Summit is beginning in San Juan, Puerto Rico. It’s not too late to grab a ticket if you go to billion dollar seller summit.com. And hopefully you can join us in Puerto Rico. Got an amazing lineup of speakers, a lot of networking, a lot of fun right on the beach. It’s gonna be some good times had by all, and you don’t wanna miss it. Billion dollar seller summit.com. And don’t forget this summer, I’m debuting the Billion Dollar Sellers Newsletter. It’s 100% free for listeners of this podcast. So be sure to go to billiondollarsellers.com and put in your email address and name to get on the beta list so you can be one of the first to get this brand new newsletter. It’s gonna be chock full of advice and tips and strategies and hacks for e-com and Amazon sellers billiondollarsellers.com. Enjoy this episode with Mark Casey. Mark Casey, welcome to the AM/PM Podcast. It’s an honor to have you here.
Mark:
Thank you very much, Kevin. Yeah, I mean, I’ve been looking forward to like the day where we’re gonna actually both sit down and able to record this cause we’re both busy people
Kevin King:
That that’s true. But, you know, we actually recorded something back in September of last year, I think it was at the sale and scale event that Helium 10 threw. And I had like a little table set up outside the Helium 10 Elite workshop. And you came by and I was recording just anybody that would stumble by that I could grab by the arm and say, Hey, come over here and sit for five minutes. And I think you and I sat there for, I think it was more than five minutes just talking. And when we put that podcast out in September of last year, like, your section was one of the most popular sections on the entire podcast. Got a lot of good feedback. So I was like, I gotta get you on. You gotta come back and do this again because you know, some people may not know your name or they may have heard your name, but they don’t know exactly what you are and what you do.
Kevin King:
And I would say, if I describe someone said, Hey, what’s this Mark Casey guy? I would say, Hey, he’s the fixer. You know, he comes in and and fixes issues. Whether you have a, a crappy listing, he can come in and fix the whole listing from the images to the copy, to the SEO to the A+ to whatever. Or if you’re having some sort of issue with Amazon where you’re having to fight with them, he’s got solutions to help. And some of those problems is, it runs the whole gamut. Is that correct?
Mark:
It’s more or less correct, I would say. Yeah. So it’s funny cuz like people always approach me like, oh, I heard your name somewhere, you give a podcast or whatever, but I don’t know exactly what you do. Which is funny cuz like, I guess, yeah, throughout all the years of me being involved with Amazon, I was always excited about different things. But I guess now I’m more narrowed down to like more the optimization point, the creative, the marketing, the branding cause that’s essentially kind of where I started.
Kevin King:
Now, you actually were never actually a seller. You never like, took one of these courses and were actually selling yourself. But you worked for some big companies in the beginning, right? Before you branched out on your own.
Mark:
Exactly. Yeah. So I was never a seller, which is funny, but like at one point I, someone like, you know, people was like talking to me and giving me like all these phrases. I’m like, what are you talking about? But like, that’s when I first first started my racket in marketing and branding. Like I, I’ve been doing that for some time. And how I got involved with Amazon was well, one of the brands I was working with to help them with their optimization and their marketing and their branding. And they’re like, oh, we’re, you know, we’re branching out into Amazon. And for me, Amazon at that point was like, we order something and it comes in two days. Like it wasn’t, I I never thought about it in a seller perspective. So this
Kevin King:
Is this around 2014-20 15, something like that?
Mark:
Early, early on. So it was something, but it wasn’t as crazy as it was today. So I’m like, when you approach him, I’m like, no, I just let me sit within my four corners and where I’m happy with and, you know, and he pushed me do it. I’m like, okay, I’ll see what, what it is. So that’s where it kind of started to be like, whoa, there’s this whole ecosystem and world that I never even knew existed. Like I was always on a consumer point of view, we’re just buying a product. But realistically, like every click or every scroller writing a keyword, plural or singular makes a world of a difference. So I took, I took out it from a different perspective, right, where I would learn Amazon SEO or the algorithm and then I would combine that with my marketing knowledge, right? So, you know, they have a listing.
Mark:
I would address all the points and make the consumer happy cuz you know, putting the different in points in the infographics or lifestyle images or what colors to use, et cetera. But at the same time, I would also look out, cuz I know Amazon wants to see how long they engage with the listing for, you know, when they click the I forgot exactly what it’s called, but like from when they clicked to your listing to add to cart, how long did that take? Amazon takes all these things into account basically. So whenever I created listings, I did it in a way that was making the consumer happy in order to add it to cart and then Amazon happy for them to see that they’re adding it to cart and purchasing it, et cetera. So yeah.
Kevin King:
So you said you combined your marketing. What did you do before? What kind of marketing stuff were you doing before this whole e-commerce deal?
Mark:
So marketing was, I mean, it was more, I would say design focused. I would help like design, like packaging and just in general design. Like, I was always like a hustler when I was a kid, you know, I was like that.
Kevin King:
You had like a little side, were you working for a company or you had like a little side?
Mark:
No, just something I did like on my own. Cuz I just like design, I like business. I was just like, you know, like hustling. And then I went to college and got a degree in marketing and branding. And then I got hired by, by the comp, this beauty brand to do older marketing and branding and like the whole creative and whole idea. And then they threw me into the Amazon jungle.
Kevin King:
And so that started around 2015, right when this whole FBA thing was really starting to get some, some wind under it sell. And so a lot of people must have been coming to you saying, Hey, we need some help with everything is. And so it things just exploded, right? That’s
Mark:
How it started because I started doing this for a company, right? And I’m not gonna go work for other people, but then it’s like, Hey, you know this Amazon thing, can you help me too? And it’ll be even from friends, right? Or family. So then I would help them out here and there, and then people were like, okay, come, come work for me. And I’m like, me, my personality is like, I don’t like working under people. I like working with people cuz I don’t like being micromanage. So I’m still on good terms and I love them like a brother. You know, the brand that I worked with the brand that I work with, we’re really close, but I told him, I was like, I think I want to branch out. I’ll still service you, I’ll help you. I’m here, whatever. But I want to branch out into my own thing. So then that’s kind of where I started this unofficial agency where I’m starting to help a couple people here and there. And like, the numbers were really growing. Like, we were able to get people you know, to really the next level where their brand was on Amazon.
Kevin King:
So you started out as a one man show. Are you still like the one man show today? Or do you have a whole team working for you? I was gonna say, no, you gotta have a team. No,
Mark:
A hundred percent. We have a team and I’m very thankful for every person on my team. So I did start off as like this one guy and then, you know, got my assistants, but now we have close to 10 designers throughout all our senior designers and whatnot. We have four copywriters and then we have our, you know, SEO and our developers and whatnot. So we have a nice team around like 15 plus people which I’m very happy about. And they’re the ones who kind of do all the magic behind the scenes and help us create the listing, optimize them. But at the end of the day, what I don’t give up and as busy as I am, which is a funny thing, but like, yeah, I can be really busy. I’m still the creative director behind the projects cuz I have a certain vision for every product that comes through our door, right? So when someone brings me a product, I would think of like all these out-of-the-box ideas, which will make the listing successful, that even if someone is the greatest marketer or whatever, won’t understand it in the way I understand Amazon and marketing. So I’ll be the creative director behind it, even if it’s for one minute or 15 minutes, give the idea behind the project, and then my stamp of approval goes on each project that we send out the door as well.
Kevin King:
So it’s your team, US-based, or it’s is it a mix?
Mark:
It’s a mix, yeah. I mean, honestly, it’s, I think it’s very underrated. The talents you could find around the world, especially now with Covid being remote like is totally, you know, normal. Obviously our copywriters and content writers are US based. And then some designers and then the rest like, yeah, we have people over overseas who have really good talent. We’re really, really, really picky about, you know, the talent that we hire. And we don’t just hire anyone even for like basic edits. We want someone who understands, and we could speak about this more in depth, but then like for example, a main image isn’t just a main image. There is so much science behind the main image.
Kevin King:
Well, let’s talk about that. What is the science behind? I mean, for those listening, they think they need to show the, the front of the product or the cover or the, maybe it’s, it’s the box and, and maybe they do a little PickFu test or something like, something like that. Or they ask their friends and family, which one do you like best? Or they have their own favorite and they throw that up and pray. But it’s that main image. I mean, there’s three things that are important on a listing, the most important things. That’s the price, the title and the main image. And I think the main image is probably actually the most important. Some people say it’s the price or the title. The title get you discovered. It helps get you discovered. But the main image is what justifies the price and helps to repeat the interest and lead ’em down the path. And so many people, they just don’t spend the time or energy on that main image. So what are some of the some things that you see that you could recommend, Hey, people, you need to pay attention to this, this, this, and this, or do this, this, and this.
Mark:
A hundred percent. I always say like, think outta the box. Just think different. There’s so many ideas that we came up with that they’re a hundred percent TOS compliance with whatever rules with Amazon, but it just stood out so much that like, their conversion rate and their click through rate were like jumped through the roof just by updating it. There’s so many things you have to just, you have to, you have to keep in mind, right? If someone’s scrolling on Amazon, it’s hard nightmare for someone who’s ADHD, right? There’s a hundred things going on, sponsored ad videos you know, display ads, a hundred different things. You have to be the one that stands out and then you get the click. Once you get the click is another story we can continue. But it literally continues a story about your product.
Mark:
But your main image is something that you want to have the shopper get a sense of what your product is and explaining it, but without giving everything away and without making it too busy that they’re just gonna look over your product right away. So like showing you something, it includes or showing, like for example, when we worked on like I think either shampoo or something it was, and had like Alovera, right? So we would put, we would put like a little hint of like an Alovera leaf or whatever it’s called on the main image. So right away someone understands that this shampoo is associated with Alovera. And you know, we started getting the clicks like that.
Kevin King:
So that was on the main, when you say it’s on the main image that was actually on the physical product, or that was like, you put it kind of as a graphic or something in there
Mark:
Kind of as a, like, we photoshopped it in, we photoshopped it right next to the bottle where it looked like it was part of the bottle, but enough for them to understand that it’s not part of the bottle. And this is something that, you know, even if they don’t understand, their subconscious mind understands that, hey, this is Alovera, and then their subconscious mind starts to think Alovera is soft, alovera is good for my hair, et cetera, et cetera, without even thinking about it. So all these subconscious things, right, that your mind is already telling itself that you may not even realize. And then which gets you to just click that image. That’s, you know, the main, where this whole funnel starts. I would say.
Kevin King:
That’s old adage of an image is worth a thousand words, right?
Mark:
Exactly.
Kevin King:
So what are some other things that you can do to actually make your image stand out? I had on the previous episode, I believe to yours, we had someone from Product Pinion actually. And he was talking about we were talking about some different ideas and things that you can do on the main image, but I’d like to hear from you. You’re the guy that’s run a bunch of these. What what are some other cool things that you can do to just pop on that page?
Mark:
I’ll tell you something cool, and I’ll tell you something funny. So which one do you wanna hear first?
Kevin King:
Let’s do the funny one first.
Mark:
The funny one. Okay, so the funny one was what I heard, I think I forgot where I heard this, but we tried it and it worked and was hilarious. It’s turning your main image, product image upside down. Totally outta the box and crazy. But it’s officially not against terms of service to put your product image upside down, but I imagine looking on the search results and your supplement bottle is literally just upside down. How many people do you think are gonna click just to see, like, is this a glitch? Is there something wrong with my computer? And once they click on it and they go on the listing and your product is a good product, you’re gonna start to get conversions.
Kevin King:
All right. That’s cool. I’ve seen people do that. I’ve seen that in, in magazine ads where you’re flipping through a magazine and someone runs the ad upside down just because you’re like, what the heck? It makes you stop. It’s interruption. Yeah. Makes you stop and like, you flip the magazine over, or in your case you’re like, looking at the supplemental, what the heck is that? Exactly. And you’re naturally curious. So you’re gonna click on it and, and then see the rest of listening. Oh, this actually looks pretty cool. I guess they just messed up. Amazon messed it up. So then that’s cool. What’s a cool one?
Mark:
So the cool one, okay, so this is something that you, it’s not so deep, but you have to just understand it. So for example, we have a client who sells like office products and he has a box, right? So the product packaging, he made the product packaging in a way that the corner of the box was leaning towards. The right meaning was the corner, it was in the right corner. And in your subconscious mind, you’re, it’s telling you to add it to cart and click to the buy box, right? So this may not make sense right away if you think about it, right? So imagine like, I’m just, I mean, show you like this, right? So let’s say he has a box and you would put basically the angle, the right angle to point this way, instead of pointing it that way, this way.
Mark:
And then in your subconscious mind, you’re thinking add to cart. So whenever you, whenever I first discussed this with them, we were, he was confused. I was confused. We were both like, you know what, let’s try it. He tried it and it really worked. He said that out of all his competitors, he was the only one who’s doing this, leaning the box towards the right. And he started getting clicks and he started getting sales. And I said, how do you know it wasn’t anything else? He said, the only thing we did within this week was update our main image to just point, right? And he did it on his other products. And he started picking up, which I was really in disbelief about too. And then I spoke out with someone else who’s like, yeah, that has to do with your subconscious mind. It’s telling you to add it to cart. And then the funny part was, the competitors tried to copy this idea, but they didn’t know what they’re copying, right? They’re like, Hey, look at this guy who’s, all of a sudden his product became like, you know, the best seller or whatever in this category. So everyone wants to copy and copy, but everyone was turning their box oth other ways, but they didn’t point in the exact angle, like, you know, which I just mentioned beforehand.
Kevin King:
I mean, I can tell you I shop a lot on Amazon. I probably buy hundreds of dollars a week, if not more of stuff, different items on Amazon. And when I’m buy as a, as a buyer, forget as a seller, as a buyer, I don’t read Squat unless it’s technical. I need to know that this you know, this HDMI cable is a 4.0 version, or, you know, some, some various technical special thing, then I’ll look. But otherwise I don’t read any of it. I don’t read the title. I don’t read the the bullet points. I don’t read the description. I don’t look at the A+ unless I’m really competent complaining between two different things. I look at the images and if the images don’t sell me, I move on. Yeah, everything I need to know should be in those images.
Kevin King:
And then I look at the, I’m not a big price conscious shopper. So I’m not gonna like, let me see if I can find this for a dollar cheaper from somebody else. I don’t really care. I just, you know, I’m not gonna go down to page two or three looking for a bargain. So that’s me. And I think there’s a lot of shoppers there that same way. It’s you, you’ve got to sell them in those images. And there’s things like you can do, like you just hinted at like infographics and lists and comparisons. What are some of the things that people should be doing in their images? Should they be telling a story? Should they be some people say storyboarded out and actually tell a story, or some people say no. Do a listical do a comparison. Do infographics to show all the pieces and the parts, answer all the questions. What’s your strategy on this?
Mark:
We kind of like to do a mix of both. Our general rule, obviously each category, everything’s different. We’d like to combine three lifestyle images and three infographics per listing, right? Obviously every category is different. Supplements will treat a different way. That’s the general balance we like to keep to. So you could keep a story in there and we could also combine both. You can have an image that’s a lifestyle image and then also add infographics to it. But you wanna keep it clean that people understand right away. They don’t have to scout and look for, or they don’t have to zoom in. And many people wanna make infographics. They make the text like so cute and small, I promise you no one’s zooming in. And sometimes when I have clients in our office, I would literally open up my computer and I say, don’t move from where you’re sitting right now, which is an average space between a computer screen and your eyes. Can you read what this says? He said no. Say, if you can’t read it, do you think anyone on their small little phone or computers are gonna be able to read it? So it’s all about making it just visually appealing. Nice. And for people to understand what it is. And then more in specific, let me think.
Kevin King:
Let’s keep it an simple, so so many people, they put too much stuff in the image or in order to actually read anything or they actually figure it out, you have to actually enlarge it. And you wanna try to avoid having to do that.
Mark:
Use symbols, like, use big icons, make it understandable. You have to understand people in the shopping have kind of a pain point, right? Oh, I need a new crib. Why? Because I don’t have a crib. So I’m looking for something that could fit, A, B, and C. So you right away have to sell them why they need your product rather than everyone else’s. And you have to do that in the second image, right? I was speaking to ’em earlier today and he said, no one goes past the fourth or fifth image unless they’re really heavily invested or so to speak, telling a story in that second image, you need to be really clear and precise. Don’t just put some cute little whatever you need to talk about right away the selling points of why your product is better and why they should purchase it, and why they’re gonna be happy.
Mark:
So one technique or one idea that we do is part of, whenever we create listings or whatever, part of the market research that’s included is we research the competitors. We see what are they doing and what are they not doing. On top of that, we read through the reviews and see what people’s pain points are. So let’s say I have a pack of hangers, and the hangers are, they say not, you know, they, they keep slipping in the clothes and people are happy of, people are upset about pools and whatever. We find out all the reasons why people are upset. Now we know what people’s pain points are. Take those pain points, put them into your listing. Now you’re talking the language of your customer. If I’m shopping for hangers, is because majority of people are upset that it slips. So when we go and we say advanced technology or something that it doesn’t slip or it has whatever feature you already know in the back of their mind, they’re upset about it, but you’re talking about it and boom, they’re gonna purchase your product right then and there just because you spoke their language, you spoke to their pain point.
Kevin King:
So are you using tools to actually do all this? Or are humans reading all this stuff?
Mark:
It’s called a human. Yeah. We have one person on our team who literally is dedicated just to research. So let’s say the product comes in, you know, we’ll see who their main competitors are, and then we’ll see in a visual aspect of like, you know, what are they doing? What are they not doing? And then we research, we go through those reviews heavily and we look at what are people complaining about? What are the most things people are talking about, whether grip is not strong enough or this is not. So then we take them and we use them as marketing and selling points that we know are gonna talk to the customer.
Kevin King:
So on A+ Content, when it comes to that, a a common mistake is people just repeat stuff from their, their bullet points or they repeat some of the same images from their six images. What are some very important things you should be doing when it comes to a plus content? How should you approach that?
Mark:
Sure. So I don’t think there’s anything wrong with reiterating one of the main points, cuz you wanna put it in their head, right? So like the non-slip feature, again, putting those pain points in a plus content is totally fine. But a talk a little bit about your brand. I mean, there is a brand story so that, which is more recent, right? If you asked us a year ago, it would be a different strategy. But you wanna reiterate even a little bit about your brand, that your actual quality brand and you’re not some just drop shipping from China or something like that. It’s important cuz at the end of the day, people want to feel like that quality, right? So I’m sure majority of people who sell on Amazon, their products are manufactured in China. Our twist or take on it was it is designed in USA and we used that just putting the American flag and just wrote, even designed in USA and people’s sales started convert, you know, started picking up. Why? Cuz people just like the American flag.
Mark:
We did it PickFu with two of the same images and we asked which one would you rather buy? And the, and I think 80 or 90% of the people chose the one with American flag just because like, oh it just builds that bond of trust. So even though it’s design a manufactured in China and in China you can still say it was designed in USA There’s nothing wrong with that and it really helps us out. So going back to a plus content, you wanna reiterate that? Premium A+ content’s, honestly, like if you’re eligible for it or if you’re not, you, I mean whatever, you should try to get eligible for it because there’s so many things that people are still discovering that you could still do with it, with video and it filling up your screen.
Kevin King:
For some, for those that don’t, don’t understand, what are the differences in the Premium A+ and just the regular a A+.
Mark:
Yeah, zoom. There’s a couple different things, but in short and simple, it’s mainly the sizing, I would say different and features. So a couple features are, there’s like different like detail points where you can click, it’s clickable. You, there’s different slides you can go through. You can add a video to A+ content and main thing, it’s a size that’s optimized for mobile. So that’s a huge big thing, right? Because right now when you make your a plus content on mobile, it just like, it’s either really zoomed in or really zoomed out. With Premium A+ content, you can, it’s made you make two different size. Like right when we do Premium A+ Content, we deliver two sets of assets, one mobile and one one desktop. Reason being is for mobile, it’s literally fit for your screen. So all the graphics are clear and, and and easy to read and understand. And then for desktop, it’s, it’s all, it’s much larger, also much wider. Fills up the whole screen.
Kevin King:
Now are you just helping people on Amazon do seo or do you help them if they migrate over to Walmart or Shopify or anywhere else? Or is your focus primarily Amazon?
Mark:
Laser focus on Amazon. I always tell people say, do you do ppc? Do you do this? I was like, no, I, I really focus on what I’m good at just because that’s what I’m good at. I don’t wanna spread myself too thin, you know? But yeah, Amazon is the wheelhouse I would say. But I have created, you know, like, like, you know, brands and, and marketing or whatever for just regular day-to-day brands as well too.
Kevin King:
And one of the things that you see people coming to you sometimes, and I know you look at your website, mark kc, I think it was it markcasseyseo.com, something like that.
Mark:
That was my one man band days. But I kept it cuz we got a lot of traffic from there. It’s now it’s house of amz.com or our secret site is amazonseo.com <laugh>.
Kevin King:
Oh, cool. So at the secret side, amazonseo.com. I see that there’s a list of, you know, some services and stuff. So in addition to like the a plus and the a plus premium, are you helping people with video and stuff too? Or are you just focused on the image side of things? Yeah,
Mark:
Video as well. That’s something that we started like kind of focusing more on as well is that we’ll come up with a really good creative or storyboard. And we would produce either like two different types of videos. One would be like an easy like PPC type of video which is like something you can also use for your listing image, but more like product focus, more graphics, moving things. And we got more into like cinematic style like commercial videos, which people love. And the reason is like, I mean there’s two things people love. My mind really just runs much faster than I can possibly speak, but Okay. There’s, there’s two things people love. One, they like cinematic type of videos where it just feels like, wow, this is a real commercial. It’s, it’s like part of a huge brand and it’s really nice.
Mark:
So that’s some type of video that we do like really high quality cinematic. But UGC is so underrated and I’m not sure if you spoke about this last time, user generator content, but I see a lot of people utilizing it and it works really nicely having someone just pick up their phone, talk about your product, or making it feel organic, putting on your listing. Cuz nowadays everyone’s minds are, are used to scrolling on TikTok or Instagram and they just see people making videos all the time. Right. So since their mind is used to that and they don’t feel like they’re being sold anything. Right. You know, it just feels more organic if you take that strategy and implement it on your Amazon page where you take a video that feels organic, that someone’s not selling you something, it’s a testimonial or whatever, and I’ll put it on your Amazon listing, the same effects will happen there too.
Kevin King:
So how do you get that? Do you go to your kids and say, make me a video of my spatula? Or do you go to your wife or your husband or your next door neighbor? Or do you reach out? What are some exact steps to actually do that? Yeah. Without paying some big huge agency or something to get some of that kind of content.
Mark:
No, there’s actually, I think it’s called Billow or Billow. I don’t remember. I sound funny, but I know there’s one that’s super cheap. One of my clients like was showing me how, like, you know, because people ask us, I’m like, there’s no point in me trying to mark it up and you can go do it yourself for so cheap. There are a couple out there, but I just know on it’s, I think it’s called Billow. There’s
Kevin King:
Another one called Join Brands too that, that, that helps create that stuff at at inexpensive rate.
Mark:
So, and then p and these people, the creators love to do it cuz they just a, free products and b it just kind of shows that they’re more official. Oh, they’re getting brand partnerships and whatnot. So they love to do it, but it’s so underrated and there are people who really know what they’re doing so they can take it to the next level. Obviously it costs a little bit more, but like, they make it really, really feel like a professional like TikTok video or those people who just literally take it, Hey, I try this and, you know, it’s really working. And, and I think nowadays and all the bigger brands are starting to do this too, if you look at their TikTok page is they understand that if you put an ad or put something and people feel like they’re being sold, it’s not gonna convert. If you’re putting up a more organic style video and at the end of the day, you’re wanting to obviously sell them, but when they don’t feel sold and there’s not, you take away that pressure, it’s on, it’s more organically gonna convert.
Kevin King:
So how’s ai? AI is the hot topic right now. Ai, one of the most downloaded episodes of AM/PM Podcast the last several years is one that from January about ai. I just recently went to a conference in Vegas that was all about ai. And there’s quite a few Amazon sellers were at this event. What, how is that gonna affect your business? I mean, I know you said you have four, right? I think you said you have four content writers. Are you only need one of them now because three, three of them can be replaced with an AI and just have the one guy or gal checking or how’s that gonna affect? How do you see that affecting this whole e-commerce Amazon business?
Mark:
For sure. And I got this asked quite a couple times, quite a few times. The way it is right now, I still feel it doesn’t have that, you know, human touch to it. It is really powerful and I’m not just someone who’s in denial, right? So like right now, like for real, if you just look at it, it doesn’t have a human touch. It’s really strong and powerful. But that being said, in two years from now, yeah it’s gonna be worrisome. It’s gonna be like, whoa, it’s gonna get really good, especially through more data and more just more of it learning of what’s good and what’s not good, what the feedback. I feel like it’s really gonna be, you know, side by side, comparable, never the same, but comparable.
Kevin King:
I mean, there’s a service out there that right now is actually gonna be using Mid Journey in some of the AI, the in APIs for the ai, the APIs for the ai, they can take your images. I’ve seen one company, they were on the Helium 10 Elite back in January where they can take, if you have a chair, let’s say you’re selling a chair and you get a picture of the chair from your, from your Chinese supplier, and it’s just sitting in a room, you can actually take that chair. And then with the ai, say I want to create a lifestyle photo where this chair is sitting in a, a room with a fireplace. There’s a blanket on the couch, and out the window behind the chair is a Swiss chalet or something with some snow. And then you can actually, it’ll create that image using your chair as the model.
Kevin King:
And you can change the colors on the chair, you can change the textures. And then you can take that and there’s another company that’s actually allowing you to take that and then do testing. You know, it’s kinda like a PickFu. But they pick Fu doesn’t have this as of this moment. They may in the future, but they have ability to, they can do two images side by side. And then, you know, the people write, just like on PickFu they write their, their reasons. I like A over B because of this. And they write comments and the AI reads those comments of 50 or a hundred people and they see it sees a pattern and everybody’s like, oh, I think the the fireplace should be have, have bigger logs or something. Then the AI automatically creates a new image. With bigger, with bigger logs in it.
Kevin King:
And I think the chair should be facing, you know, it’d be, I, I would like to see a little bit more of the back of the chair. So they, they angle it slightly different and it does another comparison, a split test. And a new group of people actually vote and you see what wins. It’s gonna get super sophisticated. Yeah, that’s pretty crazy. It’s pretty cool. And so I, like you said, I think it’s gonna take a little while for it to take off. I mean, people are using it right now to help write their titles. If English is not their first language, it’s cleaning up their copy, people are using it to analyze reviews. You know, the winner of the Billion Dollar Seller Summit, Ritu back in February, the virtual billion dollar seller summit, she did a 10 different ways to use AI to analyze your PPC and write it out to a Google sheet.
Kevin King:
It’s pretty sophisticated stuff. I know you’re like right now you, you advised some guys, I think on how to get reviews removed. In fact, with this, you know, Amazon people are always like, how do I get a negative review removed? And you’re and we’re always like, you can’t, you know, most the answer is like, you can’t, sorry. It doesn’t matter how bad the review is or how inappropriate or for even a whole different product, it’s almost impossible. But I think you just, you advised a company now that’s actually analyzing the review, right? Reads the review, then you, you it reads the terms of service from Amazon and the community guidelines. And then it looks for, okay, in this review, this section right here violates these community guidelines. And then it writes like a, like a plan of action or like a complaint and says this review should be removed because blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This particular part might offend this group of people. And you’re seeing some success with that, right?
Mark:
Yeah. Okay. So it’s really something revolutionary that I’ve been like asked to like, help with and, and this tool and just from Amazon knowledge. And when they first approached me, I was like, this sounds so exciting. Is no one like a feedback. Yeah, people can get solid feedback removed, product reviews to get removed unless it’s a shady way. No, you can’t legally you can’t get it removed. That’s like what’s at everyone’s mind. So then, so it was like three, four years ago where they asked me where they started, I mean, more recently they asked me to come help them and consult, what do you think? How are ways we can change it, improve it? And they build this AI and they taught the, all the terms of service. They all the guidelines, community guidelines and everything to the AI.
Mark:
Then what they do is they collect all the reviews from your listing. They scrape it and they upload it to the AI. And the AI will come back and say, these reviews are against these terms, this terms of service, and here’s the exact reason why. Then they’ll go and manually open up a case with Amazon, but with proof. So right now, when people go to open up try to get a review removed through a case, they just go and Oh, this is fair. Or they’re talking about whatever. They go with real data to Amazon and say, Hey, this review goes against this terms of service. Here’s the exact reason why, please remove it. And I’ve seen in front of my eyes where I was like in little shock, this is like what I’m getting the goosebumps right now. Cuz it’s always just so fun and exciting.
Mark:
Like I said, this is like a hobby for me, but I’ve seen where Amazon literally responded, thank you so much for bringing us to our attention. The review X, Y, Z has been removed from our platform. We thank you for making our community a better place. And I was like, jaw drop. Like this is like, we’ve hit gold, you know, like kind of idea kind of type, which was crazy. So, and the crazy part is the more reviews that they get removed, the stronger the AI gets because okay, X, Y, Z worked and A, B, C didn’t. So then it gets stronger and stronger and then the reasons get more, you know, accurate and Amazon re removes these reviews.
Kevin King:
So this is not a cure all. So anybody listening, thinking, I haven’t get any negative review removed, it’s gotta, it’s gotta meet certain guidelines. So if your product sucks and someone just ripped you a new a-hole, they’re probably not gonna be able to get that removed unless it violates one of these, these community service guidelines. But the AI is really good at, at matching that up and then writing a, a strong case as to why this should be taken down. And so what’s the success rate? Maybe 15,-20% or so?
Mark:
I would assume. Yeah, I think it was around there. They actually were doing it for a lot of like top sellers and aggregators until now. Just like to test out the fields and it’s successful. So we, we got our, a couple of clients on board, like some of our VIPs, like, Hey, do you wanna try this out? And in the beginning you’re like, is this legit? I’m like, this is a hundred percent legit. And you see the work in your dashboard, you see it in your, in your case log where you’re opening it up and Amazon’s literally responding. Yes, you can. This review has been removed. The crazy part is it’s so sophisticated where it can’t pick up where one reviewer, if it left a couple reviews, a negative reviews on a couple of your products, a couple of different of your products will come and alert us as well, right? So we can go now to Amazon and tell them, Hey, this reviewer is abus, like, like they’re attacking us and a lot of competitors do this, right? But now the AI could tell us, Hey, this person left five one star reviews across our product line and then now we make the case with Amazon to explain that to them and they’ll remove all five reviews. Like, tell me that’s not crazy.
Kevin King:
Can you do that also, where will the AI take that to the next level? Where like you can input, I don’t know, say I’m just making this up, 20 ASINs of your competitors. And you can, will it go and analyze all the reviews to see if there’s some sort of pattern of like this guy, you know, some this guy is attacking these five people and you know, these seven, these same seven people are, are writing bad reviews or whatever. Go to that level. Or maybe that’s the next version of it or something.
Mark:
I think that’s the next version of it. That’s a super good like idea because yeah, there’s so many people who are just like having all these buyer accounts buy and, you know, you know how the whole spiel goes where, you know, they’re, they’re, they’re abusing and taking advantage of it. So I don’t think they’re doing that as far as to my understanding. But the negative review removal, it’s like, it’s really like I feel like wow, this is like the next level of something that’s like so valuable. And if I didn’t see it, I wouldn’t believe it, but like we did it for our clients and they really removed reviews. I’m like, wow. <Laugh>,
Kevin King:
Well what’s the name? What’s the name of that?
Mark:
It’s called Ugly Feedback. It’s powered by an engine called Trace Fuse. That’s like the main engine. And then Ugly Feedback is a service basically that offers it. I love the name. It’s such a cute name. Easy to remember, Ugly Feedback.
Kevin King:
That’s cool. Yeah, yeah. I just, this AI stuff is, is it’s just, it’s gonna change everything. I think you’re hundred percent, a lot of companies are gonna be having to readjust the way they do things. It’s gonna give a lot of more power to people to actually really analyze and hone in. I think it’s gonna make products better. What do you think about this recent thing that Amazon did back in late in March, early April, where they actually started showing two things that they started showing, they started showing this product, so has sold a thousand units or whatever in the last week for some of the best sellers. And how do you think that’s gonna affect like, product pages and listings? And then they also are doing some testing where they were doing some testing where they’re showing this product has a high return rate, you know, 20% of customers or something returned this product. What do you think about that stuff that Amazon’s been playing around with? I don’t know if it’s gonna be permanent or not. But they’re testing that right now. How do you think that’s gonna affect listing?
Mark:
I’m not sure if it’s either permanent, but, okay, so the first one with showing the sales, I think it’s a pretty cool feature. It’s showing more social proof it looks like, cuz I remember hearing that Amazon wants to like veer a little bit away from how people view reviews as social proof and they’re want to look into other ways and it looks like this is one of their ways that they’re using as hey five hundred thousand other people bought it. Which is pretty cool. So I feel like I could help rather more than hurt always. I obviously I could see it wave hurting people, but the high return rate that’s horrible like that is if I saw that when I was shopping, like majority of people return this, I’m like heck no. Like no, I’m just gonna buy something else that people are happy.
Kevin King:
Yeah. Yeah. I think that’s a big, and that may be Amazon just trying to actually get people to fix their products. You know? Actually, I mean cuz returns are a huge issue. I mean, if you look at logistics magazines or logistics websites, the return game is, is a mess. I mean because Amazon, especially with Amazon making it so easy to return, what do you do with all this stuff? It’s filling landfills. They can’t recycle it, they can’t give it away enough. They can’t donate it to third world countries enough. It it’s, it’s a huge problem and just dealing with it. And so maybe that’s Amazon’s way of saying we can’t force you to, to get your, get your together. But maybe this will force. You know, another thing I think they could do is like on reviews a product that has 90,000 reviews that it’s been accruing since 2015 I think they should actually cut that. They should only show like reviews. Like if they’re gonna show like sales in the last week, show reviews in the last six months or something because oh,
Mark:
That’s a cool idea.
Kevin King:
Something along those lines. Or let you hit a button that actually shows that splits it out. So if it’s got 90,000 reviews, you just click over it or hover over it and it’ll say something like 600 in the last six months that are 4.9 stars, but the average for this product is 4.3 because maybe you had a product and you fixed some issues. Maybe when you first launched your product, it was selling gangbusters and you had some complaints and you went in and you fixed those issues that people were complaining about. That’s gonna be difficult to actually reflect in that score. Now Amazon takes, you know, when they, when they’re given the score, there, there is some, some funny math in there. It’s not just a straight average or straight median. So they are factoring recency in somewhat in that, but I think they could take that to the next level and that would help people that actually are truly trying to put out a good product and trying to fix problems and listen to customers actually have an edge or have a leg up and not be penalized for some early mistakes that may or may not been their fault.
Mark:
Yeah, that’s a, that’s a really good, did you think of that right now?
Kevin King:
Yeah,
Mark:
That’s a really good idea because like, it reminds me of like, Ray ran the book. Let’s say I go to like a restaurant or a store and like, oh, I’m so happy. Or let’s say I was so upset with the results, but like, you know, one, like one time was good, but the second time was bad. And I always wish like I could leave like two separate reviews based on two separate like, you know, experiences. So kind of remind me of that whenever you said that. But that’s a really good idea. I think it should, I I feel like not, it’s like everyone deserves a second chance. Like if, if something was bad before, but you know, it’s much better now. I think they’ll even, they’ll help out a lot.
Kevin King:
Yeah, I mean the only way around that now is you launch version two or you know, just create a new ASIN once once you fix some issues. I mean, there’s, there’s ways that people deal with that, but I just think that Amazon, if if they’re taking this level of what they’re doing, showing the sales and showing the, the return rate, they should, they should finish that the whole path. And that’s a good idea. I think, I think that’ll help consumers and it’ll help straighten up some of the sellers that need, need to be whipped into shape.
Mark:
Much agreed. I like that point.
Kevin King:
Speaking of whipping sellers into shape, what, what are the biggest mistakes when a new client comes to you that you see? What are, like, if you had to list like the top three, like, oh my God, this is like, why can’t people get this right? What are the three biggest issues when, when a new client comes to you seeking your help?
Mark:
All right, three biggest issues. I mean, there’s a lot more, but I’ll just say three, I’m just kidding. Okay, let’s see. I would say like whatever I mentioned before is that people are not utilizing their infographics slash lifestyle images like the secondary image space. They’re not using that enough or the right way. Like I said, you have to grab the person’s attention within the first 15 to 30 seconds of them going on your listing. If they don’t understand why they should buy or why this product will benefit them or solve their problem, they’re out, they’re going to someone else. That’s one, two I’m not sure if I mentioned this in the past, but I still see it where people view, people don’t really use their description, their SEO description, right? So I tell people they have A+ content and they’re like, and I tell ’em, where’s your description?
Mark:
It’s there. I’m like, no, your A+ Content is there, but your crawlable SEO text is not there. And people under underestimate that, yes, it does have power. If Amazon could crawl the text as if it’s like, I could copy and paste it and it’s actually in your listing, that’s extra, extra space where you can be putting keywords for SEO and for, for you to just get extra real estate space. So a lot of people have a really nice design and so, and, but they don’t put that there. So then many people say, but I don’t want to, I don’t wanna ruin the consistent nice flow of design I have. So I said, no problem on the bottom, just use one module as put as text and then just put it there. No one’s reading your description anyways. But if Amazon’s giving you more space to use for keywords and description, then why not use it?
Mark:
Number three is like, well it only applies to some people. And it’s a little bit controversial, but I said it before and then I got a lot of, not hate for, but I got it stirred up the pot, you know, and then I was, when then I told people, I was like, hold on, go try it and then come back to me. So it’s the title. People use their title the wrong way. And what I mean by that is they take their first word and they put their brand name there so that it only applies to certain people. But if what, what I say is, take your brand name out, either put it at the end.
Kevin King:
Well, Amazon’s tells them that they’re reading the terms of service. It says goes brand name first, model number second. That’s the people that are trying to, to, to be buttoned up that are doing that. But I agree with you, it’s a waste,
Mark:
It’s a hundred percent waste.
Kevin King:
Unless they force your hand for some reason. Don’t do it. I agree. No.
Mark:
So that’s what I say. So take away your brand name from the beginning of the title. If you really wanna put it at the end or don’t put it at all, then use the first four or five. Keywords are the most important for two reasons. One, that’s why Amazon gives you, you know, Amazon takes into account the first four or five keywords are the most important. And two, when someone’s scrolling on desktop and especially on mobile, and the half the title’s cut off, that’s what they see first. Again. So the subconscious mind wants to see your title and understand it’s a sports water bottle. They don’t want to know that it’s national Geographic or whatever it is, just a huge random name in all caps lock. And then sports water bottle. You want them to understand right away what the product is. So for as an seo standpoint the first four or five keywords are the most important. And then also just in a brand standpoint, it just don’t waste your time. What if don’t waste your title with, with your brand name more than the beginning. It’s just too much.
Kevin King:
Because I mean, your brand name is in the brand name field, you’ll still end that.
Mark:
Yeah, exactly. So
Kevin King:
The brand name. So if people are looking for, and if you have a, a strong brand name, most of us don’t. But if you have a, people are searching for your brand, and I always say, you’re not a true brand until you have at least, this is just my number that I made up 3000 searches per month on that name. So if people are at, if my brand name is Kevin’s dog Treats I need, there needs to be, when I search in my search term report or I go to brand analytics, it needs to show up. Kevin’s dog treats, just those three words are, are showing up at least 3000 times or more. Then you’re actually a true brand. People are actually looking for you by name. They’re not just looking for dog treats and yours are the coolest ones, or have the best listing or the best pictures. They’re actually looking for you by name. That would be the only case where you might consider putting it in the beginning because, but other than that, I agree with you. It’s a total, total waste. Unless Amazon, like I said, forces you to do it, because that’s technically the rule.
Mark:
Yep. Very well said.
Kevin King:
Well, all right. So we, we got time for like two more. You said there’s a ton of these. What’s like number four, number five?
Mark:
Let me see. So I mean, the video aspect, I think people underestimate the power of video. I’ve seen where you put your video as like the second or third like image on your listing. I forgot how people do that, but I think it’s, it’s a good idea whenever you can answer people’s questions through that video, right? So at the end of the day, no one has a product, right? So you have to do a really, really good job at the image being really good. So it explains the story and they feel like the product is in front of them, which it’s not. But if you get a video that answers all the questions, and also people are, are, again, visual and they heard, and now they like, do you feel like they’re connected to your video? I feel like that’s gonna help a lot on your listing.
Kevin King:
All right, number five,
Mark:
You’re really pushing me to that joke here.
Kevin King:
I’ll ask you one that that comes to play when it comes to SEO. What about the Q and A section?
Mark:
Oh, okay. The Q and A section is
Kevin King:
So underutilized.
Mark:
So underutilized, you don’t understand. I said this like three years ago, I was just giving a speech. I forgot which conference it was. I was giving a speech. I was like, you guys don’t understand q and a section, one of the most underestimated spots on your whole product detail page. Why? Ask me why Kevin.
Kevin King:
Why is that Q and A section? So why does everybody ignore it? Why is it so valuable?
Mark:
Okay, why is so valuable? They’re so, okay. Imagine, first of all, you just launched your product, right? You’re not indexed for any of your keywords or you’re, you’re not yet indexed for any of your keywords. If someone goes on your listing and asks a question using those keywords, it automatically gets indexed on your listing, especially in different categories where where some, there’s restricted keywords and whatnot where you can ask, you know, different whatever it is. So like, let’s say CBD or tobacco, when someone asks, oh, is this whatever, does it, is it compatible? Or can you use it with whatever, you know, with those keywords, you’re automatically gonna be indexed. Not taking,
Kevin King:
I’ve seen, like, I’ve seen people do that with like, CBD, like, you can’t put the words CBD or, you know, some of the pesticide words and some of that stuff. But I’ve seen people actually with like CBD or hemp oils, they’ll actually type, have someone go and ask a question that will say does this product contain a cbd? And then someone will answer it, say, and they answer it in an official way. And they’ll say something to the effect of CBD products are not allowed. CBD and cannabis, CBD and cannabis products are not allowed on Amazon. It’s against the terms of service. Or, you know, something to that effect. It makes it sound like it’s, they’re officially saying, but they’re getting those words in there again, and all of a sudden, boom, the ads start working for those words. Start indexing for those words. It’s powerful.
Mark:
And cherry on top is when people use your competition’s brand name on the question and answers, and now whenever people search up their brand name, then you’re listing it’s gonna start to come up.
Kevin King:
Now, does that just take one answer or do you need to, like, do you need to have it like in two or three or four or five of these, or what are you seeing?
Mark:
I mean, there’s no limit. I don’t know. I haven’t tested it out, but I’ve seen people do it where they, oh, how does this compare to A, B and C brand? And then you could say, oh, you know, this brand, the A, B, C brand doesn’t have you know, this feature, our brand has this feature. And then again, plugging your sports water bottle and the main, you know, short term keyword in there too, that’s just a fun little twist on it.
Kevin King:
Yeah, the, the q and a section can be some valuable stuff to actually help in a lot of ways as we just as we just discussed. Well, Mark, this is, this has been awesome. This has been some great information. If people wanted to know more about you or check on you some of your services or see what you can do for them how, or, or even hire you for your next your next speech or whatever. How would they do that?
Mark:
So I’m very active on LinkedIn but also our website, like I said, house of amz.com or our secret website is amazonseo.com?
Kevin King:
So why is that secret, why is that the secret website?
Mark:
Well, because it’s like, it officially says it’s a really cool website, easy to remember amazon seo.com, but officially has a name Amazon in there. So like, I’m on the edge where I don’t like advertise it, but it’s, it’s a cute little thing. People remember amazonseo.com. So remember, but it’s like, I just call it a secret website cuz I mainly house of AMZ.
Kevin King:
So that website everybody, that website, you need to go there now that works for the next couple weeks because someone may be listen to this game. Hey, you can’t do that and it’s gonna get changed to something else. All right. Cool man. Well, Hey Mark, I really appreciate your time, man. It’s been it’s been great, of course. And look forward to seeing you out in about at whatever it may be, the next event.
Mark:
The next event exactly. I, yeah, I really appreciate you had a great time. It’s always fun. I’m sure we could go another two, three hours if we really wanted to
Kevin King:
I’m sure we can. Well we’ll have you back on later this year or early next year. And we’ll do this do this again with all the, we’ll see where the AI has taken us and we’ll see. Yeah,
Mark:
Exactly.
Kevin King:
Instead of 15 people, you’re down to three.
Mark:
Oh, no, no.
Kevin King:
Let’s see. Hey, and you’re making twice as much money. Hey.
Mark:
Amen, brother.
Kevin King:
All right, man. Have a good one.
Mark:
Thank you.
Kevin King:
Hopefully you were taking notes during this episode with Mark, or you’re gonna have to go back and rewind and re-listen to some of that. There was some really good stuff in there and some really good takeaways that you can instantly implement in your business and hopefully see a little boost, a little success with it. Hope you enjoyed the episode. We’ll be back again next week with another great episode. Don’t forget the Billion Dollar Seller Summits coming up in just over a week. So hope to see you there. Those of you listening that are coming, looking forward to seeing you on the beach in San Juan, Puerto Rico. Before we go, here’s this week’s wards of wisdom. You know, when you look at the, how the top performers in the world or on Amazon or anywhere operate and you examine what they’re really doing, what’s really going on in their minds and what they’re really doing, you often see the complete opposite of a hack. What you see is repetition and consistency. That’s the key. Everybody likes hacks, but repetition and consistency is the key. So just take a look around, look at the top performers in any field, anything in the world, whether it’s on Amazon or in sports or anywhere. And if you really examine them, you’re gonna really see what’s going on is that they’re not doing hacks, they’re just being consistent and constant repetitions of the same thing. We’ll see you again next week. Take care.
The post #345 – Transforming Listings into Sales: A Deep Dive into Effective Amazon Marketing with Mark Casey appeared first on AM/PM Podcast.
